Toylander II with a few little modifications

[quadra]

Hi

My name is Mike and I live in Dorset in the UK. 18 months ago I started to build a Toylander II. I built the body first as I assume everyone does.


As I built it, I decided that I wanted to make some adjustments to the mechanical layout by running two motors with mechanical disc brakes at the back, so I set about making some hubs and caliper brackets.



I also wanted my landy to have the chunky look, so I purchased some small quad bike wheels.



I also decided to use fibreglass to create the curved wing tops and the bonnet. And then the painting could start, which took about 2 weeks to complete. I am just in the final stages of wiring the speed controller in, which is controlled via a throttle pot, but uses a tacho feedback system to provide maximum torque at all throttle settings. The two motors are 370w 24v motors with 25:1 reduction gearboxes built in , one for the left and one for the right, the motors are wired in series which gives a small amount of electrical differential effect. And this is where we are now.





Cheers Mike

[eddmac]

mmm, like the braking system 

With 2 x 24V motors, what are you using as your power supply?
and with 370w each, have you worked out what kind of speed that setup will do?

Cheers
Edd

[quadra]

Well we had our first test drive today, and all went well. It needs a little bit of setting up i.e. the acceleration ramp on the speed controller is too fast, but otherwise all seems to work ok.

I am using two 12volt 45 amp/hour batteries that are designed for mobility sccoters.

The top speed can be controlled by restricting the movement of the throttle pot on the pedal, but the motor will still produce maximum torque at any given speed due to the use of a tacho feedback system which monitors the speed that the motor is turning at in relation to the input.

This is a small video of the first outing.

http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y156/DaxQuadra/?action=view&current=DSCN0006.flv

Cheers Mike

[multisync]

HI
Thats looking good, luv the brakes! These forum posts have given me the encouragement that I needed to get started! So thanks for that. I,ve got the plans now and just getting some of the materials together to get started.
Best wishes
Walter

[quadra]

Yeah its good fun, I think I enjoy the sense of satisfaction that it is finished and it works. I did a bit more today to try and refine the way the power is delivered. Both motors are now connected (they aren't in the video) and the acceleration ramp of the speed controller has been increased to give smoother acceleration. The throttle pedal is now limited and the car runs at a top speed of around 3mph which is more than enough for now. My oldest boy, Tom, drove it to the local shop tonight and all went well, except we kept getting stopped and asked questions.

[quadra]

So the steering was a little heavy for the boys especially with those huge boots at slow speeds, so I designed a steering box to give a ratio of 2-1. I used a couple of small steel gears, some needle roller bearings and some mdf to create a cage to house it all in. I had to adapt the steering column to incorporate the new steering box and I wanted it all to be contained within the engine compartment. The first version was ok but it had two issues. The first one was that the gears accentuated the play in the steering column at the top and bottom and secondly the way I chose to attach the gears to the shaft wasn't strong enough and the steering broke when we clipped a concrete post. So I have now addressed these two issues and come up with design number two. I have enclosed some pictures.

This is what the whole column looks like now.


These are the bearings which attach to the top and bottom of the column to hold the steering shaft in place, they are oilite bearings housed in some derilin.


This is the gearbox and its associated support cage.


And this shows how the gear runs in the needle roller bearings


And this is how it looks installed in the car (please note it is not attached as I still need to do some finishing to it)

[quadra]

Yes i have to agree it is not the best solution but every little helps. I think if you gear the steering down too much, then it might be difficult to control when driving on the pavement. i have found that some pavements are not very wide and with the up and down ramps the steering has to be fairly positive to maintain proper control. I could use larger gears but that would make packaging the whole thing even harder. I will try this solution and develop it from there. Thanks for the positive comments guys.

[markh15]

Hi Guys,
I've been giving this some thought, because the steering arm on the car only turns about 90 degrees Lock to Lock, a 4:1 ratio would give 1 full turn lock to lock, agreed.
 
So in theory, to get at least 2 turns L to L, we are going to have to use a ratio of 8:1, as the largest gear will still only turn through 90 degrees from lock to lock, no matter how many teeth it has. It is the small gear on the steering shaft that does the most revolutions to turn the larger gear one full turn, 8 small to 1 large.

Maybe the solution is the window winder mechanism. This way you only have a 100 degree quadrant to contend with to move the steering arm, and the steering column to operate the winding shaft.
I have looked at these mechanisms (albeit on Ebay), and some look compact enough to do the job with little modification.

I have to agree with Mike, although the standard steering works well, when modifying you need maximum control when driving on the pavement or in confined areas. So maybe the ideal would be between 4:1 (1 full turn L to L), upto a maximum of 6:1 (1-1/2 turns L to L). After all, these are supposed to be for children.

Just my take on things.
Keep thinking, we'll get there in the end,
Regards,
Mark.

[Anthony]

Hi Fellas,
I Like the gearing ideas. Apparently if you want a steering wheel with lots of turns and some slack like the real McCoy find yourself a window winder [remember them?] from a Montego. That's what my pal in Longstreet did.

But remember the size of the footprint of each wheel makes it difficult to turn at standstill and we will never achieve the lightness of steering of today's modern car. The larger the footprint the greater the drag. If you are using the standard set up made to spec the following points aid ease of use as tested by our three year old: Correct and regular lubrication; [We have found steel on steel]; Include brass washers in the set up [as supplied in our kits]; Correct adjustment of the fixings. Further aids are correct tyre pressures, small enough grip on steering wheel rim and using GEL batteries as against 110Amp hour Land Rover batteries! Best wishes. Richard

[Gremlin]

Sorry for the delay, but here are the pics of my attempt at the steering problem......................





This gave me about 4 turns lock to lock but in the opposite direction i wanted, it has now been shelved for a better solution.

P

[markh15]

Hi Patrick,
It looks like we're all working on the same project, but from different angles!  
It will be interesting to see who cracks it first, and with the best soluton, but Mike (Quadra) clearly has the best, and neatest, one so far for my money!

It looks like it's the window winder approach for my favorite, it seams to be the most feasable, and the easiest to locate parts and modify.
I'm going to see my mate at the local car breakers and have a mooch around the yard to see what looks best, so I'll keep everyone posted.

Keep Thinking,
Regards,
Mark.

[quadra]

This is the same toylander, its just the photo's were taken at night under the flourescent lights in the garage. The colour is very light green.

The other car is a Dax Rush Quadra, hence the user name, which I built before the kids were born.

The toylander is always being tweaked, we tested the new steering today and it works a treat, very smooth due to the bearings and bushes and not too heavy once under way. Tom drove it in the dark (lights ablaze) about 1 mile on the pavement and he didn't complain once about feeling out of control, which he did with my version one. I have just made a new transmission tunnel to hide the wires and put carpet in the front footwell.

[quadra]

Ok took some pictures outside today, after a trip to the shops. When I was painting my car it was difficult to find pictures for reference, especially with regards to painting the rear panel, so I took a close up to help some others in the future.











And thats it for now, have a good christmas.

Cheers Mike

[multisync]

Hi Mike
Thats all looking great, nice detailing at rear too. Are the silver side panels on the back, metal panels or painted on? They look super.
Walter

[quadra]

Walter

Thanks, the side bits at the back were spray painted, done with some very careful masking.

Mike