Toylander 2 Defender

[Defender 45]

Hello all,

Following on from my posts in Introduction section, ive now made some progress on the build !

Decided to go for a seperate chassis, with swing front axle + disc brakes, and rear independant suspension using mountain bike shocks.

A bit tight getting it all to fit under the TL2 body, but now looking good. Adds about 45 mm of wheel travel at rear and with the front swing axle, should give perfect rough ground traction. Only problem being the shocks, although look fantastic are just for show ( no damping at all!) and the springs are 650Lbs rated .

Best bit is it only apears to have added around 8kg to a standard TL2 build, so looking good so far.

I will add pictures once I sort the file sizes .

Jason

[Defender 45]

Right,

Started to put pictures on photobucket as per below...........will update as i go.

http://s1216.photobucket.com/home/defender-45/index

Jason.

[brian]

Hello Jason, there's a lot of work gone into that, well done.

There could be a bit of a problem with the rear suspension, apart from the rock hard springs. The two rear trailing arms would be better with the wide part at the pivot end to spread the loading of the suspension during a turn or travelling at an angle over rough terrain.  The wider apart the suspension pivots can be, the more loading they can sustain without movement at the extreme ends where the rear stub axles are.

Just a thought, I don't want to rain on your parade.

Kind regards,

Brian.

[Defender 45]

Hi Brian,

Thanks .

Yep totally agree with your comments about the rear end, and feel free to make further comments as its easier to correct during build than afterwards!

The design i went for was the rear arms to be radius arms (like on old Minis), hence the wide front pivot area. During fabrication I then had an idea of triangulating these arms to limit any twist of the tubing....now they have the wishbone look! I am going to fit softer rear springs at a later date.

Now i am thinking, do I turn them around to function as they look...as stub axles are not welded in yet or just remove the triangulated tubing to save weight. With a fully built loaded up wieght (inc 4 kids?) of around 250kg, what do you think would work best?

Regards,

Jason

[paulr]

   Looks like you are having fun with the build,keep it up.  As for the technical stuff about the rear suspension I'm out of my depth on that one, but the only thought we can echo is your one about weight. Will you have to manoevere the Defender for storage or for taking it out for visits. Our T/L 1 is moveable single handed if you move it one end at a time but for tight storage moves 2 people make it easier and safer into sheds vehicles etc. (cheaper than keep fit classes .   

Bw PaulR and MrsR

[Ant-G]

Hello
Very neat chassis.
Regarding the rear suspension, I would swop the trailing arms end to end.
The mountings for the front end of the arms needs to be as wide apart as possible. The triangulation is to take the lateral loading from cornering, etc.

Out of interest, how do you intend retaining the chain tension on the drive between the motor and wheel during the suspension travel? I assume the plan is to mount the motor in the tub.
Regards
Anthony

[drkwack]

Hi, that I like, bu tmust admit I had thought about the mountain bike shocks and was advised the might be a little too stiff as well as only giving a small amount of movement, just a thought, but yep tidy, must get on with mine now the snow's gone.

[brian]

Hello again Jason.

I think a reversal of the trailing arm rear suspension putting the widest part at the front would give you the best option for stiffness and strength under load.

Kind regards,

Brian.

[Defender 45]

Cheers Brian,

Yes, will swap around, no problem .

Just secured it to body for now so i can work out the steering and motors setup, again all looks a bit tight but progress is being made. Going to intially use the standard TL2 direct steer setup, having just read your "Grandpas" thread again and noted the last comments you made.

With regards to the chain and suspension movement, im using a similar setup to a motorcross bike....a idler wheel that keeps some chain tension as the suspension moves up/down. The motor sprocket is is almost in line with the front mounting point, so setup similar to a motorcycle swingarm and as rear can only move around 45mm max, so not much variation to take up. I think i may have also spotted one somewhere on this forum before.
Anyway, this will be fixed to the tub, to rest on top of chain between the 2 sprockets, and it will be adjustable to suit chain stretch.

Will put up more pics to show all this, as i go (its all still drawn out on scraps of paper so far!! )
Regards,

Jason.

[brian]

Hello Jason.

You will possibly have trouble using a chain tensioning device that is spring loaded unless the tensioning spring is very very strong.

When you reverse the drive, the chain will tend to take up all the slack in the tensioner before starting to move the tub which will tend to throw the chain off the sprockets.

Regards,

Brian.

[Jason]

I agree with brian. I had the same idea of the idler sprocket but discarded it because of the reverse

[Defender 45]

Hi Brian and Jason.

Thanks for your concerns.

Its a bit hard to explain without pictures but the idler will be fixed to the inner arch and not sprung loaded (but manually adjustable).
I am mounting the motors with the output shafts up against the seat riser panel, so they are not above the wheels as in a normal Toylander setup, which will provide me with the action similar to a motorcycle swingarm.
With the fixed idler, it should also make no difference going forward or reverse.
Ive have drawn it to scale on paper, and simulated the swing of the axel and it appears to work but wont know fully until ive done it......

Regards,

Jason.

[Jason]

I'm anxcious to see som pics of your design.

[Defender 45]

Hello again all.

Update...

Well things are still moving along nicely, have now turned the wishbones around as per Brians helpfull advice and fabricated the stearing.
I also decided it was time to totally strip down tub and glue/screw it together using a combination of PVA and also polyuretane glue (boy does that stuff go off quick!!). Had to modify the front inner wings at same time to stop wheels hitting on full lock/suspention movement  . Most of the body is now cut and fitted or waiting to be fitted, just lots of sanding now to make it all presentable .

Have now put groves in mark out doors and made a bonnet out of MDF (althought may use this to make fibreglass mould).

Need to give it a break now as another project requires finishing first but hopefully soon will mount the motors, chains and the start preping the tub for primer. Then i can concentrate on the electrics!

I have updated photobucket with more pics and will do more as i go.....catch you all again soon hopefully

Regards,

Jason

[Defender 45]

Hello All,

Back again after a very long break but the Toylander is almost finished.

Had to rush the last few bits so it could be used by my son for a fireworks parade on Saturday night!  
It was his first time driving it, the first time it had been properly tested and did about 3 miles in front of a few thousand people lining the towns High Street. Luckily nothing went wrong and he got it home safely.

It certainly made an impression, got recognised a lot as a Toylander and helped us win most of the trophies (Out of 20 other floats/parade groups! )

Its painted in Satin Nato paint ( sons request) and can be seen with the decals on the door representing the infamous Dr Who U.N.I.T taskforce ( as our float was a Dr Who theme).

Just needs soom comfy seat pads, number plates and a few minor alterations to finish.