Where to start?

[Lee]

Hullo everyone!

I've not posted for a while but I keep an eye on what's going on  Basically I was wondering what parts of a T2 build I can start without actually building the thing! Realistically I'm not going to start on the body until better weather gets here next year so I thought I might start working on other bits to keep my hand in while I wait. Things like the windscreen are out in case I make the body too wide etc so it needs to be parts that won't be affected by body dimensions.

I looked at the accelerator pedal but I'd really need the switch to make it right so that's out too. I'm sure you get the idea - parts I can make without having to buy other parts first! I've thought about the dash pod but I'd like to base it on the real thing. Anyone have any good photos of a real series 2 dash?

Thanks in advance,
lee

[multisync]

Hi Lee
I understand your predicament but I think your'e heading for problems if you go that way. The body tub is a monocoque unit and all the other parts are fitted on to it. The interior wing tops, seat etc are better cut to fit the body, than making them in advance. 
However.......if you are making the metal parts and not buying them in..........the front and rear axles and steering collumn, and the steering links and kingpins, etc can all be made to the drawings, without having the body tub made.
The one wooden part that you may find beneficial to start on is the rear panel. You would need to make it a little oversize in width, so you can cut it to fit acurately on the body afterwards, but there is a bit of work in the drop tailgate that you could start on.
The best way forward is to start with the base of the body tub and build up from there as per the manual.
Find youself a bit of space somewhere, get started, and you'll have it ready for the spring!
Best of Luck
Keep us posted.
Walter

[Lee]

Thanks for the reply Walter. Unfortunately I can't start yet as I don't have a decent space to build in. My current shed is too small (and full up!) so I've gathered most of the materials I need to build something I should be able to work in. The weather at the moment won't really allow for me to get something built and rain proofed so I thought smaller parts might be the way forward until I can get the shed done. The axle etc are a bit out of my league to be honest. I could probably make the parts but the welding and sourcing small amounts of raw material might be a problem so I think I will have to buy those bits in.

Thanks anyway,
lee

[multisync]

Hi
Your shed sounds like mine, no room to work as it's full of usefull stuff that may be handy oneday.
No good waiting for fine weather in this country tho!
Best Wishes
Walter

[Tombraider]

Hi Lee,
I made all of the metal parts myself and it was pretty soul destroying cutting, drilling and filing metal for 3 or 4 days solid. I bought the metal from Metal Supermarkets, I had the bush in the swing axle machined for ?5 and spent ?30 (+ 3 hours supervising) on welding - total ?72 vs approx ?178 if you buy it from Richard. I still had to borrow a tap from a machining company to clear the threads out in the front axle and one of them isn't quite vertical. To be honest, if I built another one, I would probably buy the metal from Richard as the quality is much better as they must be welded in jigs. The best thing I did was to buy 8mm balljoints (from RS Components but they come in packs of 4) and a threaded rod for the link from the steering column to the flat bar (instead of another flat bar with a twist). Screwfix sell threaded rod but often in packs of 5. Depnds how much money you want to save and how much you want the satisafaction of making as much as possible yourself.
Regards
Mike

[Lee]

That's exactly the problem Mike. Cost of parts from Richard vs the cost of sourcing the material, making parts then having to buy them from Richard once I've screwed them up! I might bite the bullet and try a simple part first to see how I go  

I seem to remember seeing some kind of suspension system somewhere. Are these home made or can you buy parts to do this? Seems like it would be horribly complicated with the drive wheels though...

Plenty to think on, especially as the rain doesn't show any signs of stopping this year!

Maybe I'll have to make an ark instead  

All the best,
lee


On a side note, how to you get the metal supermarket site to give you prices? I just took a look at it but it just wants me to go through some checkout procedure. Do they contact you with a price for the items you have asked for? Many thanks!

[markh15]

Hi Lee,
Do you have a 'B & Q Warehouse' in your area?
If you do, they have a good selection of 'Rolled' (flat) steel, as well as various diameter Steel Bar and Tube, in both 1 m and 2 m lengths.

They also have Corner (angle) section, and a selection of Aluminium pieces in the same sizes (although these are a little more expensive).

It's usually in the 'Hardware' section (with the Nuts, Bolts, and Screws), and vary in price, depending on what you need.

Foe example, a 1 m length of 20 mm x 4 mm Cold Rolled (flat) steel is about ?4.50, and this will make most of the flat parts shown in the build manual.

Just another place to source parts I thought you might find useful.

Keep Busy,
Regards,
Mark.

[multisync]

hi
Mark is quite right, and I often buy some steel there, as its convenient;
but if you can find a stockholder to supply small quantities, you can get 5 metres for a little more than that, but finding a supplier is difficult.
Walter

[Tombraider]

Hi Lee,
I guess I am lucky in that I live only a few miles from a Metal Supermarket so I went in and asked what they had. If you take your build manual with you and say you are making a toy car for a child on a limited budget, they seem more than willing to find offcuts for you! I found that B & Q (and Homebase etc) was horrifically expensive for metal eg one strip of aluminium capping for the body was ?7.50 and you need 5 vs the whole lot from Richard was ?6.50! He will sell it uncut if you do want to put the join line in where the door lines are (I elected not to put the vertical door lines in the body to try and make it look sleeker/longer so did not want a join there) but the postage is more so I collected it from him. Maybe the B & Q wharehouse is cheaper but I doubt it somehow. Here's an example of Metal Supermarket prices:
20mm x 5mm x 82" long ?5.75
12mm threaded rod ?3.00 (the zinc plated one, not the stainless steel)
20 mm threaded rod ?6.50  "
25mm x 25mm angle x 50" long ?4.20
5/8" tube for steering column 30" long ?2.30

A guy at www.ebolt.co.uk will sell you nuts and bolts individually but again, probably would have been easier to buy a pack of the correct ones from Richard.

The suspension axle is no longer available because it didn't do what it was designed for which was to keep the back wheels on the ground when one front wheel goes over a bump. hence the swing (or as I would call it "pivoting" axle). If you want to see one with really good coil spring suspension, have a look at Gremlins yellow T2 (which has given me ideas for my next one!)

Regards
Mike 

   

[Lee]

Once again, thank you gents!

In my June 2009 manual there are 2 types of axle - on page 56 is the standard one and on page 60 there is one with a pivot point in the middle. Maybe I'm being blind but I can't see any other mention of the second axle, especially with regards to the pivot point. I guess this is the swing axle?

As I always seem to add more questions why break tradition?  Are steel parts used for cost purposes? I thought stainless might be better for the axles but does it add too much weight if you use it for the other parts, ie steering etc? Also, does Richard have his parts TIG or MIG welded?

Thanks again!
All the best,
lee

[Tombraider]

Hi Lee,
Yes the axle with the pivot point is the swing axle. Tip - if you are going for the swing axle, do not drill the two holes at the front of the floor as shown on the plan - these are for the standard axle and you will need 4 holes for the swing axle (two for each bracket) but it a different location.

Mild steel is ok for this application (it's only a toy car after all!) Stainless is probably the same weight but is more corrosion resistant. If you paint the steel parts they will probably last for years. Tip - when I went to buy the 1" washers for the front stub axles, the guy had 3 different types. Make sure you get toe ones that can be welded without problems (I think he said you weren't supposed to weld zinc plated ones as it gives off poisonous gas). Again, I don't think it really matters what type of welding you do as long as it is done properly. Ask for self colour. Richard

Regards
Mike    

[Lee]

Thanks Mike,

Now I look at the drawings again I can see the brackets etc all relate to the swing axle. I think this is what I'm going to aim for, although it looks like the steering would be more complex with the movement issue. Found a few companies on ebay selling lengths of tube etc so that might be the answer. Postage is a bit steep with a few of them but if I was to purchase all of the material from one company at once the postage wouldn't go up by much. This week I'll price the materials and look at how the cost stacks up with the work that would need doing.

Thanks for putting up with me 

All the best,
lee

[markh15]

Hi Lee,

In respect of the 'Pivoting' axle, it's definately worth the extra effort.
It solves alot of wheel slippage on rough ground, and it doesn't have to be that uneven before the car starts 'cocking' a wheel!!

I fully intend to use this system on my next Landy build,

Watch this space.... as they say.

As for your steel problem, I'd go and look at B & Q warehouse first. I think their prices are competitive, and there's no P+P!!
Granted, Aluminium is pricey, but I got a 2m length of 15 x 15 mm corner section for the top of the tub for under a tenner!

Buying from Richard is also an option, but again P+P takes a big bite, so if Richard is not too far from you, make arrangements (with Richard) to collect and pay for the parts, and look at your next project while you're there!!

Just a thought.

Regards,
Mark.

[Richard]

Have you tried the local scrap yard? Ours here in Biggleswade also holds steel which if you are looking for small bits and in some cases don't mind getting a little rust off can help. We use Arenastock in Letchworth but they only supply in 6 metre lengths.
Regards
Richard