Battery drain.

[max]

Hi all.
could somone tell me why the batterys on my mobilty scooter drain in seconds?.
I have a mobilty scooter that is going in my toylander 2 that im cutting out at the moment, the problem is that the battery level drops in about 2 seconds. the idea is that before i take it a part i want it to be fully working so that any problems later will just be a problem that ive caused if you get my meaning.im not sure of the make of the scooter but the controler is a dynomic ds100 if that makes any sence! i have changed both battreys for good ones so i know its not them. could anyone help me as im going potty!!!. is it a short of any type or ??

many thanks
max

[graeme]

Hi, if they are draining that quickly, part of your wiring/electrics is going to be getting VERY warm,  would have to be a dead short. Otherwise would be your battery/s have dropped a cell, but then you say that you've changed them.... Only other thing i can think of is that maybe they're not getting a proper charge? Hope this points you in the right direction. graeme

[markh15]

Hi Max,
If everything is OK, no hot wiring, switches etc, then it could be a controller fault.

As Graeme says, check the batteries off the scooter, with a head lamp or something similar, to see if they discharge quickly, if not then it's some other problem.

You could try and find another controller, I think that the Ds 161 is compatible, but 'Dynamic' have gone out of production, and are no longer making either the DS 100, or DS 161.  

There is a link to their site on the forum, posted by Multisync (Walter), for the 'Rhino' controllers.
It's under the 'Custom' heading, in the 'Secret Project Unvieled' thread.

Their site is http://www.dynamiccontrols.com/

You can download a 'Wiring / Controller Installation Manual' from there, and this might be able to shed some light on the situation.

Hope this has helped,

Keep Busy,
Regards,
Mark.

[max]

I read in this forum that pritt stick was the way to go!!!, anyway i didnt go mad with it(good thing now).

After 2 hours of correcting the wires that were wrongly connected, the status indicator is telling me that their is a motor fault. which is gutting as it was the power !. when pugging in the charger its is telling me that the batterys are charged. then i disconect the charger and the battery indicator stays full. as soon as i press the lever for forward/reverse the battery indicator drops straight to empty!!!
so do i try and sourcs another motor or find somewhere that fixs them?. or buy a rope and pull the landie along .
or could i use the other bits of the mobilty scooter?.
HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
max.

[markh15]

Hi Max,
Have you tried wiring the motor directly to a battery to test it? If the unit has an electric brake on the end, remove it before testing, as the motor won't spin freely with it in place. It could even be the brake unit that's at fault.

Take the brake unit to pieces, being carefull not to loose the small cylindrical spacers from around the screws, and clean the friction plate and it's mating surfaces of any rust etc.
While it's off, connect it up to the wiring, and test to see if it's releasing when the power is applied to the drive circuit (moving the  direction 'Wig-Wag).

If this fails, it could be the controller as you say, but you don't necessarily need the same motor or wiring, as you already have.

You could substitute the final drive unit (Transaxle), or wiring / controller from any working scooter to get the desired effect.

I originally used a Freerider 'Mayfair' scooter for the build, but the Dynamic controller went faulty (Controller Fault), so I used the controller and wiring from a Shoprider 'Cadiz', which, I suppose, is the same as changing the motor from one wiring system to another, I just did it in reverse!!

Keep your eye on good old Ebay (the Toylander builders best friend!), for either an axle assembly, or a 'Spares or Repairs' scooter in your area, as it's usually the controller or the  F/R  motion 'Pot' (Wig-Wag) that goes faulty.

If all else fails, you could always follow other forum members, and use a 4QD controller. There's loads of info on the forum as to where they can be found, and how to set them up!

As for the other bits of the scooter, the king pins / swivels from the front axle can be pressed into service on the landy's axle assembly very effectively, if the scooter's front beam (axle) pivots, then you could make the beam longer and utilise this as your front 'Swinging' axle, you will have to fabricate a central pivot point to mount it to the car, but it saves alot of work otherwise.
The only thing limiting you, is your imagination and / or fabrication skills, but I'm sure you, or family or friends, can help out with these, or you wouldn't have taken the project on in the first place!!

Hope this long explaination has helped,
Keep Busy, and don't panic Mr Mainwaring!
Regards,
Mark.

[multisync]

Hi Max
This will be a bit long winded, but take it one step at a time.You are quite right to say you want to get the unit running properly before you build it in.
It may be stating the obvious but it is imperative that you get the basic wiring setup correct. Thesecontrollers are pretty robust, I'm not suggesting that they NEVER go faulty, but you can do all sorts of silly things and they will simply shut down. For example, they won't work if there are breaks in the wiring, and on certain models, they will shut down if the lever on the motor, is not in the drive position. Even having the paddle control off centre when the unit is switched on will cause a failsafe problem.


When you say that the batteries are draining quickly, is it just that the indicator gives an incorrect reading?
You can test the battery by using a car headlight bulb.  A 55 watt bulb will take about 4.5 amps from a 12 volt battery. if you have an 18 AmpHour battery, thats about 4 hours. So you should see something like this duration before the bulb dimms significantly. 35 AmpHour battery should give something approaching 8 hours.

The comment that Mark made about the brake unit is a valid thought. If the brake is stuck in the ON position there wll be a heavy current draw.

On the motor there is a lever to disengage the drive so that the scooter can be pushed along without power.
There are two main types.
One has a microswitch, When the lever is operated it lifts the brake OFF, and the switch lets the controller know that the brake is off and prevent operation of the scooter, for safety reasons. ON THIS TYPE OF SCOOTER THE CONTROLLER WILL NOT START UP IF THE LEVER IS NOT IN THE CORRECT POSITION.
The other type has a lever that physically disconnects the drive within the transaxle unit. On this type of scooter, the motor will turn but of course the scooter will not, just like a car in neutral.
Post some pictures of the motor and controller if you can and someone may be able to help.
I hope this is of some help.
let us know
Walter

[max]

If you notice the the power wires are black for live and red for net. i presume that someone in the past got it wrong as i checked against the wiring diagram. i hope this will help someone help me!!. thanks again to you gents that have taken the time to try and help!
max

[max]

After buying a volt display from ebay, one of the batterys was no good so changed it for one that is ok, the volt reading is 23.5 volts. so i still have the motor problem so i checked the fault indicater and 5 flashs says its the brake fault. while i was there i wired the motor directly to the batterys and there was smoke from the wires and the wire became to hot to hold, but i could here the motor turning. so the question is whats the problem? and when i wired the whole lot up right again there was no light on the controler!!!!. so i checked the volts again and going in to the controller was 23.5 volts but coming out was 0.
help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[markh15]

Hi Max,
It sounds like one of two things to me. Either the brake is stuck on, this would cause the wiring to overheat despite the motor trying to turn, or there is a major controller fault of some sort.

Try to remove the brake unit from the end of the motor, but leave it connected to the wiring, and repeat the test.
If it's the brake binding on, the motor will spin up freely, and the wires will remain cool.
If it's a controller fault, then I would guess the same thing will happen, and you'll have to find an alternative controller.

This is the simplest (and cheapest) solution I can come up with. Good Luck.

Keep Trying,
Regards,
Mark.

[max]

Hi gents.
Tonight i finally got to work on thr mobitly scooter. i followed your advice and took the brake unit off the end and wired the motor direct and hay presto it worked, then took the offending unit to bits and cleaned it, put it all back together and still got battery drain. i wired it all up but without attaching the brake unit to the motor and still battery drain, so conclusion is the brake unit is shot!!!. the question is do i try and get a new brake unit and where do i get one? or does anyone know how to trick the controller in to working without having a brake unit attached to the motor as the tl2 will have brakes on anyway!!

any help will be great!! and ill post some pics soon!!

MAX

[multisync]

Hi max
As you are aware the controller will shut down if the brake unit is not present; However, if you wire a resistor into the circuit, instead of the brake coil, the controller won't know the difference. I have tried this myself, and it works ok, only thing is you must get the value of the resistor in the right range.
I tried 1000 ohms and the controller acted as if the brake was not wired, so then I tried 500 ohms and it worked ok. You will have to experiment a bit but that will give you some idea. The higher value that you can use the better as the current will be lower. I would suggest using a 500 ohms 1 watt resistor as a start. Use a 1 watt resistors as it will get warm.
Try it and see
Regards
Walter

[max]

hello again.
sounds like a great plan but what sort of resistor do i get as just been on the maplin web site and they have loads of types of resistors and should get some sort of holder in case it needs replacing??

thanks again
max

[markh15]

Hi Max,
If you know what sort of scooter it came from, you could keep an eye on Ebay, as motors and brakes sometimes come up for sale.

There is a guy on Ebay, goes by the trader name 'love gruffles', who seems to break scooters quite regularly, and has various parts for sale.

Alternatively, ask at your local Mobility Scooter dealer, to see if they know of a 'Scooter Workshop' in your area.

I came across one this way, and they service and repair mobility scooters, and have older ones donated to them, to either repair and sell on, or break for parts.

My local one (Shopmobility) is a registered charity, part funded by Lottery monies, so operates on a 'donation' basis for work done / spares supplied etc.

I know of another in Skelmersdale, so I'm sure that there must be others dotted around the country, check out Google, or one of the other search engines.

Then you'll have both braking systems to choose from.

Keep Busy,
Regards,
Mark.

[max]

hi mark.
i followed your advice and went to maplins and brought loads of resistors 460.510.6.. 1 watt 2 watt etc as they were pennys each. then tryed them one by one and the very last one worked 560 omhs 2 watt, so great advice. be cause of the size of the axle i had to cut a square channel down the inner rear wings(photo to follow).the thing is will the sprocket be seen from the side? and talking to richard today he advised me to count the rpm's which was 128 per min forward and 96 in reverse. ill now go and take some photos!!
max

[max]

im getting there!!!





any thoughts???
thanks
max

I have had a tidy up !
The easist way is to select the code from the "IMG Code" box on photobucket and post that straight into this page. You do not need to do anything else.
If you are posting from a site that does not use the same method as photobucket you need to do it differently.

Anthony