Secret Project Unvieled

[markh15]

Hello People,

I haven't posted in the last couple of weeks, as progress has been a little slow.
The quad wheels are away with Gary, having two inches taken out of their width. This will be done by taking off the inner section on each of the two piece wheel hubs (they were a three bolt fastening)....


where they bolt together, and then having new 2mm thick plates welded over the holes.
Then Gary will bore large center holes out of the plate (on the lathe) for the center of the hubs to fit through. Once this is done, he will use one of the scooter hubs as a pattern, and drill out four holes for the bolts to hold the wheels onto the hubs.

I'm sorry I haven't got any pictures as yet, so I hope you follow what I'm talking about.

I have also made covers for the rear coil-over dampers. These are bent from thin aluminium (same as the bonnet), and fit around the rear of the dampers in an attempt to keep some of the dirt etc out of the motor bay.
This is the view from inside the motor bay...



And this is looking at it from under the wheel arch....



As yet, I haven't decided how best to fasten them. I could simply drill and countersink the flanges under the arches and use small screws, or I was thinking of removing the flanges and drilling through the sheild, and screwing into the edges of the rear inner wings.

Another little job was the lower extensions to the wheel arches on the back panel.
As I'm following drawings / pictures / measurements for an 'Austrailian' built Moke, I thought I had better keep mine as true as possible, this is the actual car....





And this is what I came up with....







As you can see from the last picture, I have had to add a strip of timber to the bottom edge to make up the shortfall due to someone's (who me?) inaccurate measuring!

Being a terminal 'fiddler' (and detail fusspot), I decided to make a 'fake' spare wheel too.
This was cut from scrap MDF. I cut two circles 11 ins in diameter, and screwed them together (back to back) on some 30 mm dowel (actually, it's a scrap curtain rail)....



Then I glued and pinned some 4mm thick hardboard around the edges to cover the gap....



I had to do this in two strips, as the hardboard off-cut wasn't long enough.

I clamped it in place on the back panel, to see what it looks like....





Not bad for some scrap timber and a few (dozen) panel pins!

That's about it for now. I'm tinkering with the wiring at present, and trying to decide which of the two wiring looms to use.
Walter (multisync) has offered to (try) and sort one of them out for me, but I think he's enough on his plate at the moment, but it is nice of him to offer, thank you buddy!

I'll post again when I get the wheels back, and have started to draw up for the stub axle extensions and front suspension set-up.

Take Care,
Regards,
Mark.

[brian]

Very good Mark, not done much constructive myself, I've been busy decorating and helping my son refix his fence panles, as you do eh?

Keep up the good work.

regards,

Brian.

[markh15]

Morning Brian,

Yes, I know the feeling. My youngest daughter who is 21 (the one with CF) has just started to learn to drive. Added to this, she has chosen the 'Mobility' car this time (she's registered Disabled) as she wanted a smaller car, so that she could drive once she's passed her test.
She's chosen one of the new Fiat 500's, which is based on the Panda platform.
So I've been roped in as a temporary / additional instructor, using the Fiat.

She's not doing too bad, I've had her doing hill starts (for an hour), and we've just started to do reverse turns and I've introduced her to the art of the 'three point turn' yesterday evening.

Makes a change from scratching my head over the Moke I suppose.

The dutiful parent's life is never dull!!

Take Care,
Regards,
Mark.

[multisync]

Morning all!
It's like the Mediteranean here, best weather we've had in years!
The Moke seems to be coming on well now. What is the overall size?
Is the body tub more or less like the same dimension as the TL2?
I spent 10 mins this morning, sitting in the sun and thinking, the rest of the time I was just sitting in the sun!
Actually I'm making some alterations to the Toyden towards a solution to my braking headache.
Keep busy while it's warm.
Walter

[markh15]

Hello Walter,

 I'm glad you're enjoying the sunshine Walter, it's piddling it down here!
But then again, we are only just outside of the 'Rainy City' (Manchester), so I can't expect anything else really!

As for the dimentions Walter (trust you), it's going to be about 65 ins long (inc bumpers), 28 ins wide, and I think around 27 ins tall to the top of the screen. I have had to guess-timate the last one as I don't have the completed wheels yet. The top of the bonnet will sit about 16 ins above the ground, so a little lower than a Toylander.

It's handy to remember that a Toylander isn't exactly half scale, where I have tried to keep the Moke as near as I can, within reason.
As with all of our builds, we have, either knowingly or not, used Walters 'Stand Off Scale' rule, to make the vehicles look right.

I should be able to get two children in the front, and my ample frame on the back, sitting on the motor compartment cover!
I have thought of making it a full four seater (like the original), but the rear passengers will have very little legroom, so I might make 'dummy' seats for showing the vehicle.

Well, I'm off to feed the fishes at the bottom of my garden,

Take Care,
Regards,
Mark.

[markh15]

Hi Guys,

I can't believe it was October when I last posted in this topic.

The only drawback to having a tame engineer, is the fact that other people have access to him, and he has loads of his own projects to see too.

Gary has sorted three of the four wheels for me, and finished machining the transaxle extension pieces for me (a couple of months back to be honest), so the weather being nice today I decided to get a little more done.

As you may remember, I am using six inch diameter quad bike rims for the Moke wheels. These are similar to the Mobility Scooter rims, being of the 'split' type (in two halves). The original quad wheels were cut down on the lathe, and the six hole center-plates removed.....


Then we drew around the rims (with a permanent marker) onto some six inch square pieces of 2mm thick plate, which Gary then cropped roughly to shape on the hand guillotine. Once this was completed (8 times in all), we discovered that the rims would be a little too wide, so four of the halves had a further 20mm machined off them, giving the rims a slight 'offset'.
Gary then used the TIG welder and glued the 2mm plate to the inside edge of the rim, to form the mounting plate.

I didn't see the next stage, but Gary tells me that once they were all welded up, he machined out the center hole on the lathe (for the hub) and then used one of the scooter's hubs as a template to drill the four mounting holes in the right place....
Outer (face) section

Inner (rear) section


Once this was done, he returned them, and I filed the edges smooth, drilled a hole for the inner-tube valve (in the outer rim halves), and primered them....


You might just be able to make out the 'offset' in this picture....


He then got to work on the 'Axle Extension' pieces. These were going to be a challenge, as they don't have a milling machine at work, and these parts have to have key slots machined into them, one internal, one external.

Gary managed to get the internal slots cut by making a tool for the lathe, mounting it in the tool-post, and with the extension piece in the jaws of the chuck, winding the tool-post back and forward thus taking a thin cut each time. This must have taken him hours, but he managed it. The final insult came as he was making the last pass, the bloody tool broke!

He said that a friend from a nearby company owed him a favour, so he had him machine the outer keyways on their lathe!
I think he's done a fantastic job on them......

and they fit a treat. I had to do a little 'dressing' filing on the internal slots and the original scooter keys, but only to clean them up.

The hubs fit like the original scooter items....


and fasten through the centers with a single bolt....


We must have done something right, as the complete unit....


Fits in the chassis....



with an inch of space behind the rims....


There may be a little 'sidewall' bulge from under the rear arches, but I'll know better when I get the tyres.

Now that I'm back 'in the mood', it's onto the front suspension / steering. This is still in the thinking stage as yet, but ideas are forming, so watch this space as they say!

Take Care,
Regards,
Mark.

[markh15]

Hello Again People,

I've been tinkering with the front suspension / steering set-up on project Moke over the last few weeks, and although slow, I've made a little progress.

I wanted to make a double wishbone system initially, but space is very tight, and some of the components are just a little too large to make it look and work right.
I then had the idea of a single, upper wishbone and a straight axle tube at the bottom, but again component size didn't work, so back to the drawing board. 

I then tried this idea. I cut the original scooter axle in half with the intent of widening it and making it a swing axle, but it would've hung too low under the car, and raised the overall ride height.

So I cut into the chassis, welded two plates (either side) in place, and shortened the axle halves to suit, and ended up with this....



For the mock-up, I am using a coil-over shocker from a boys mountain bike. This has a distance of 5 ins between mounting holes, but the spring is rated at 650 lbs, a little stiff for the Moke!
I have since found a supplier who sells the same sized units (5 ins ctrs) for mini quads, but with only 90 lb springs, still a little stiff, but I think these will be better suited for the job.
I have used 1" x 1" box section for the coil-over unit top mount from the original axle I made for the Moke, again cut down to size. This will be welded into place when I get the shocks, to make sure of placement!
As I didn't want to be cutting and welding brackets everywhere, I decided to slot the top mount, and have the shocker slide inside....



I think this looks neater and saves a lot of time.

As I will only have one suspension arm, I'm going to have to fit a tie rod / arm to stop the lower arm moving back and forth while the car is underway.
My idea was to copy the original Mini / Morris Minor system as close as I could. This is because the suspension will be seen, as the car has no outer wings to speak of, and I want to try and replicate the original as close as I can.
So I am going to use two of the scooter's steering arms, whch have rose joints fitted, and weld brackets to the lower arm....



And the front of the chassis....



My only concern is that there won't be enough movement with this set-up when the suspension travels, so I'm now thinking about a bracket on the front of the chassis, with the threaded portion of the rod passing through, and thick (probably tap) washers either side. I will have to weld a washer to the rod, which will go on the back side of the bracket, before securing it with a ny-loc nut.
This is very much like the original fitted to the real vehicles, and should look (and work) correct.

The other item I have been pondering is the steering. I was lucky enough to be given a small 'Rack and Pinion' steering box by Gary's dad, which he had made for another project.
 He dabbled in petrol engined tot-rods a while back, but the costings made them very expensive to sell, so he ceased production.

It's very simple, just a block of aluminium machined out to accept a cog and the rack....



With a lid fitted....



It measures about 5 ins x 3.5 ins x 1 ins deep, with the rack portion coming from an old lathe....



The back simply has a hole through it, where the steering shaft will attach to the gear....



The rack should give about one full turn lock to lock, and be very smooth in operation. I have to sort out the shaft to box arrangement yet, but I'm already thinking about shortening the length of the box by 2 ins to aid fitment, and shortening the rack portion too, so I can make some sort of connecting arms with small ball joints at the end.

One problem is that the steering arms are directly in line with the side of the chassis at the moment....



So I have this problem to solve, but it's not impossible.

As ground clearance is going to be an issue, I'm thinking about mounting the rack box inside the engine / battery compartment.
This will keep it out of the elements, but means that the steering arms will have to pass through the inner wings, but this might be a blessing in light of the above problem.

That's about it for now, hope you've found my ramblings entertaining.

Take Care,
Regards,
Mark.

[multisync]

Well Hello!!
Here's me thinking you were hibernating for the winter, (like me), and now we find out you've been secretly working, or at least planning, the next stages of your project. Keep at it. Do you have a date for final completion?
Walter

[markh15]

Hi Walter,

Completion date, What's that?

You know as well as I do these things are never completed!

Hoping for this year, but don't hold yer breath!

Regards,
Mark.

[brian]

Don't forget this year is a leap year Mark, so you've all ready had one extra day, gerrah move on.

I like your steering rack.

Regards,

[markh15]

Hi Guys,

I've put the extra day to good use so far.....and slept!

The little steering rack / box was developed and made by Gary's Dad, George, and donated to me after Gary told him about the Moke project.

I don't know if you can see in the pictures, but the rack has 'HPC Gears' stamped into it, and is (apparently) part of an old lathe. The sprocket has 24 teeth, and after a little investigating, will give about 1 full turn lock 2 lock.
 
He (Geaorge) was producing a similar sort of childs ride-on toy, using a 5hp petrol engine and fiberglass bodies (which looked like an american pick-up truck), which he hoped to start selling. The majority of the components were similar to racing go-kart parts, in which George has a lot of experience.

Unfortunately the production costs were a little high, and the vehicles would have had to retail around the £1500 mark, too rich for most.

The few demo vehicles he made were sold off, with one being kept for his grandkids / great grandkids etc. He offered me the last glass-fibre body he had, unfortunately, after measuring it up, I found that it wouldn't fit down the passage at the side of our house once completed, so I had to say no thanks which hurt.

There's been a little more developement on the front suspension, and I'll post pictures when it's all finished and welded up.

Keep busy,
Regards,
Mark.

[markh15]

Hi All,

Yes, I'm still plodding along, so here's the latest installment.

Over the last few days I have continued to work on the (nightmare) front suspension / steering setup

After a lot of searching (eBay), I found some mini-moto / quad coil-over units which looked ideal for the front. I enquired about the spring strength. and was told that they were around 90 lb units, which I thought was sufficient.

I ordered a pair (£19 ea) on Thursday afternoon, and in all fairness, they were delivered on Saturday morning....


I have to say that I'm a little disappointed in them, the springs are stiffer than 90 lbs, and there is absolutely no damping action. on dismantling I found that there is no sort of oil inside, and the rod simply moves inside the damper tube on rubber bushings.

I contemplated sending them back, but decided to use them in the absense of any others!

So now the front suspension is (almost) complete, just some welding to complete, as all the components are tacked in place at the moment (I learned that lesson long ago).....


It might not function, but at least it looks the part!

I decided on the 'copied' Mini system for the control arms, using 3/4" tap washers for the rubber components.....


which are shouldered by 30mm dia washers with the centers drilled out to 8mm. The rear one (washer) is welded to the shaft, just like the Mini it mimics.
The front bracket was also copied (sort of)....


and is only tack welded for now.
I went for this idea as it looks like the Mini system, and also gives more movement to the suspension over the rose-joint idea I posted last time.

Today I have been concentrating on the steering rack, and boy has it given me a headache!
No matter where I positioned the box, inside the battery (engine) compartment or under the car, I couldn't get the right angle for the steering column.
I decided to fit a small u/j (thanks Gary), which he donated some time back. I have had to drill out the gear sprocket in the box, then tap it to the same thread as the u/j, before drilling through the two items and fitting a 4mm roll pin just to make sure it doesn't come undone!
Then I couldn't get the angle without cutting a hole in the floor board of the chassis. This meant that the batteries wouldn't fit!
After some serious head-scratching, I came up with this....


The box is mounted flat against the underside of the floorpan, and up against the chassis rail, but had to be shortened to get it as close to the side as possible.
The u/j now comes up into the battery compartment....

But is still going to need some work (and maybe another u/j) to get the column to connect!
The other headache is that the rack now sits directly in-line with the chassis rails, so these will have to be altered so the rack / steering arms can pass through. I've done one (drivers side)....


And strengthened the frame by welding in a section of square tube....

which the rack now passes through.
As you can also see from this picture, I have made (cobbled) up a very  short track arm. This is made from two r/h rose-joints, screwed onto a section of threaded rod. It's a 'stopgap' for now, just so I could work out angles, and how the end of the rack itself would have to be altered.
My idea to make a permanent track arm is to use a male rose-joint on one end, with a female on the other., this will (hopefully) give me a little adjustment.

Things are looking promising on the steering lock front though, I guesstimate that there should be enough clearance each side....

Right, and....



Left to give about one full turn Lock 2 Lock.

The last bit is to alter the chassis on the left side so the steering arm can pass through....


I still have to modify the left end of the rack, and work out a way to keep the whole thing clean and out of the elements. Electrical trunking is looking favourite at the moment!

So that's the state of play to date, I'm off for a lie-down in a dark room!

Keep Busy,
Regards,
Mark.

[markh15]

Hi All,

A little more progress to bore you all with.

I was having problems with the attachment of the rose joints to the rack. If I mounted them below or above the rack, they would foul when the suspension moved up or down.
They would have to be mounted dead center of the rack end, so I came up with this....


adding small plates with hole through them to each end for the rose joint to sit between....


and welding them in place.

Then I hit a snag, someone (no prizes who  ) hadn't measured up correctly, and the right side was now too long, DOH!
So I cut the end off....


Shortened the rack by another five teeth, and re-welded a fresh braket in place.

This was only done after some serious study of how far the rack moved in the box, and if their would be sufficient movement to allow full lock. Lesson Learned!

I have had to cut one of the chassis braces off, so I could get the rack off should the need arise, as with this in place, the whole rack had to be dismantled before it could be removed...


I have shaped another brace (seen in the pictures), but this will have flanges welded on, and will bolt through the chassis rails.

The steering wheel will (still) only move about 3/4 of a turn, but the lock at the wheels is looking promising....





I have the left side steering arm to make up yet, and I thought I might have to put a slight bend in the arm to clear the tube....


but I mocked this up just to test it all out....




and it doesn't foul the tube on either lock, so I might just leave it straight.

The size of tyre I am using (pictured), is 13 x 5.00 - 6 (but in black). I was going to use 4:10 - 3:50 x 6 tyres, but these are expensive at £22.50 each (plus p+p), and the ones I have decided to use are under half this price, but are the same dimensions?

At the moment, the tyre is rubbing against the tie arm when on full lock....



But when I have another tyre I will weld some stops in place on the lower suspension arms, to give more clearance.

Well that's the state of play so far, I can now turn the tub over and start on the steering column next.

Keep busy,
Regards,
Mark.