Author Topic: Swinging Axle Modification  (Read 1731 times)

markh15

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Swinging Axle Modification
« on: 15 May, 2009, 10:40:27 PM »
Hi Guys,
I was seriously thinking about converting to the Pivoting Axle, after having to rescue Harvey so many times the other week, while we were out on the field.

I don't know where this idea came from, I think it was one of those 'I wonder if it will work' things, but it seemed possible in my head, so I decided to give it a go.
I wanted the wheels to stay vertical when the axle rocked, to stop them fouling the arches and reducing the steering lock.

After some measuring up, I began to build.

I started with a standard scooter axle which I had lying around the garage, as I wasn't sure if this would work....


And then drilled a 8mm hole at each end....


The larger holes in the top and bottom face of the axle (which used to hold the original king pins), were filled by welding a piece of steel into the hole, and then grinding the weld flat.

I then cut some 1" square tubing to 3/4" long, and welded on some lengths of 20mm flat stock 2 1/4" ins long, with an 8 mm hole in the end....





to make up the pivoting ends...


These have a good range of movement, but it won't all be available because of the floorpan...


I then added the arms for the Stub Axle pivots....

from 1" wide flat bar, 2 1/4" long, with a 10 mm hole in the ends.

I made sure they cleared....


and cleaned them up....


This done, I started on the Axle's Central Pivot point. I had some 4" long off-cuts from the bumper lying around in my scrap bin (I never throw anything away), so I cut this to shape, and added a spine plate to mount the tie rods to.
I drilled the spine plates, an 8 mm hole 1/2" from the tip, for the tie rods, and a 12 mm hole lower down for the axle pivot.

I discovered that the box section wasn't wide enough for the axle, so I cut it down it's length to make two individual plates....



This done, I worked out the length for the tie rods. I clamped a piece of scrap bar to the side of the end pivot, made a tie rod up, and mounted it in place. To my surprise, it worked!

I then made a small mock-up of the floor by cutting a piece of 2" x 1" to the width of the floor, and clamping it in the vice. I found that the pivot point had to be further away from the floor, to give a little more axle movement, so I packed it out with a piece of 1/2" thick scap timber.

This is the axle in it's level position...


Fully raised, (remember, it's upside down)...


And fully extended, (down)....


And finally, the detail of the linkages. these will be below the axle....


As you can see from the pictures, the Stub axle end stays level, so the wheels will remain vertical as planned.

I have finished the mounting plate (to fit the assembly to the floor), but as yet haven't been able to photograph it, so I'll do that in the next day or two, so that you can all see the finished article.

It's a little heavy to be honest, but I think (hope) that it will solve the problem of reduced steering on full lock, and the rear wheels loosing traction on rough ground due to the Scooter differential.

I have found that it's not been as complicated as I originally thought, but because of my steering box, I have had to make the mounting frame a little wider than first thought, but this will only add stability to the assembly, making it less prone to breakage.

You'll see what I mean in the next installment.

Keep Busy,
Your Crazy Friend,
Mark.


« Last Edit: 15 May, 2009, 10:42:37 PM by markh15 »
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multisync

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Re: Swinging Axle Modification
« Reply #1 on: 15 May, 2009, 10:53:54 PM »
Hi Mark
that looks like a well thought out , (and well executed)  solution. I like it!
Especially as you have used threaded links, it means that you can adjust the camber angle.
Due to a minor error in my build I have one vertical wheel and one leaning in very slightly, using that type of setup, I could correct it! Well done.
Walter
Just a Big kid! I love toys! Collect Dinky's, build model planes and helis, etc

brian

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Re: Swinging Axle Modification
« Reply #2 on: 15 May, 2009, 11:01:39 PM »
Very nice Mark, I wonder who's going to be first with double wishbones and coil overs.:D

Don't forget to brace the swing axle to the Tub well, a minor bump at the periphery of the axle will put an enormous strain on the pivot point which is why I used the droplinks as strain bars.

Regards,

Brian.
Brian.

Geriatric kitcar builder.

markh15

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Re: Swinging Axle Modification
« Reply #3 on: 15 May, 2009, 11:11:31 PM »
Hi Brian,
Yes mate, I've thought of that, and intend to follow your example. I will make up some tie bars from threaded bar and small (6 mm) rose joints, these will extend forwards to the bumper mount, as space behind is a little limited with the steering gear.

I'm at a financial halt (again) at the minute, but I will order the joints next week, and work out their placement when I mount the axle assembly.

As for the Double wishbones and Coil-overs, that might be me as well when I get the secret project underway! ;)

Keep Busy,
regards,
The Nutter! ;)
« Last Edit: 15 May, 2009, 11:13:17 PM by markh15 »
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jimmyybob

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Re: Swinging Axle Modification
« Reply #4 on: 16 May, 2009, 12:25:14 AM »


As for the Double wishbones and Coil-overs, that might be me as well when I get the secret project underway! ;)



Sounds like a 'tot rod' to me. ;)
.
« Last Edit: 16 May, 2009, 12:30:55 AM by jimmyybob »

markh15

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Re: Swinging Axle Modification, Part 2
« Reply #5 on: 16 May, 2009, 09:54:23 PM »
Hi Guys,
Managed to take some pictures of the Axle Bracket today, so I'll update you with the progress so far.

I made the frame from 25 x 25 mm, 4 mm thick corner section.
 
I had decided to use the mounting points for the existing axle, but due to the front member of the frame being slightly (1/4") further forward, the holes at the front couldn't be lined up correctly, so I have moved them forward by a 1/2", and will have to drill new holes through the floor.

This is the framework to take the axle....
 

 

These two pictures are of the front. The lack of brace on the left side (right side of picture) is to allow the drop arm from the steering box to operate.
If the unit is secure enough, I might remove the brace from the opposite side, I haven't decided as yet.

Due to the drop arm on the steering box, the back part of the frame has had to be moved backwards to allow it to clear....


As can be seen here in the cross view.
The original mounting holes in the body for the rear bolts have been retained.

As I said in the earlier post, small lugs were welded to the pivoting ends, to mount the tie rods....


Both these items were made the same hand, so it doesn't matter which end of the axle they mount....


Finally, the 'semi' finished axle on it's (heavy) mount. I say 'Semi' finished because I have the tie rods for the pivots to make up, and also the front radius arms to fabricate and mount....


But that won't take long to sort out.

The last two shots are a little clearer, and show the reange of movement:-

From fully compressed....


To fully extended....
 

I measured the range of movement, and it's 2 1/2" from stop to stop, but I might have to limit this when mounted to the body, so the wheels clear the arches, or fit flared arch extensions! Maybe another project!

The next step will be fitting it to the car, and finalising the front radius arms. Hopefully this will be simple,  :-\ but the 'toylander' curse may rear it's head again!

Keep Busy,
Regards,
Mark.
Bloke with too much time on his hands!

multisync

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Re: Swinging Axle Modification
« Reply #6 on: 16 May, 2009, 10:24:34 PM »
Hi
Thats all looking very good, it's time you built a Mark 2 version (no pun intended) as a test bed for your modifications, and gave poor Harvey "his" toy back!
I like the Tot Rod that Jimmybob posted, now that could be next project.
Keep grinding
Walter
Just a Big kid! I love toys! Collect Dinky's, build model planes and helis, etc

markh15

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Re: Swinging Axle Modification
« Reply #7 on: 16 May, 2009, 10:32:44 PM »
Hi Walter,
I have considered making a new body, but 2" wider and 4" longer, to get a better 'perspective' to the vehicle, and either retire or maybe sell the red body, as Harvey is still wanting the colour changing to Blue.

All of the modifications are done in vehicle downtime, i.e. when it's raining or Harvey's at nursery, so he doesn't loose out on driving time.

So that's the 'Secret' project, and a new body on the list of things for Grandad to do!

I'll never get round to doing my car!! ;)

Keep Busy,
Regards,
Mark.
Bloke with too much time on his hands!

brian

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Re: Swinging Axle Modification
« Reply #8 on: 16 May, 2009, 11:30:46 PM »
Looking good Mark.

Regards,

Brian.
Brian.

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markh15

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Re: Swinging Axle Modification :- Update...
« Reply #9 on: 24 May, 2009, 08:53:14 PM »
Hi Guys,
I have vertually finished the axle modification now, have positioned it on the body and got everything central and clearing. I have made up new tie rods for the pivots, fitted new rose joints to the lower tie rods, and painted all the parts.

I have tried to fit it this morning, (before we were due to go to a 40th birthday party for Dawn's brother-in-law) so that Harvey could drive it around the Football clubs field, and not get too bored.

I have noticed that one or two things need a little more finnesing, as some of the parts are very close to one another, causing some minor problems.
But because I hadn't the time to iron out the bugs (we had to be there by 3:00 pm), I've had to change the axle back to the original one (just an hour before we were due to go!! eat your heart out Ferrari), so I'll have to try and sort it out at a later date.

The main problem is going to be the bracing rods, these will have to come from the front, as there is absolutely no space at the back due to the steering cross arms.

Gary and I were talking about this problem yesterday (he's had another good idea), so I'm going to go with his suggestion, I can't wait to sort it and post the pictures for you all to see, it's so simple, yet will look so 'Trick', and should do the job really well.

The car was a great success, with all the neices and nephews, as well as all the relatives, most of whom haven't seen it.
At one point, Harvey was chaufering upto three kiddies around the field, at 8 mph, for almost 3 hours, on half charged batteries! No wonder they need charging!

The little car is currently having a lie down in the shed, while being fed soothing electrickery intravieniously!

I've had some enquiries about building a few, so anyone who wants in on the franchise, can contact me and we'll make a killing!! (ha ha ha)

Keep busy,
Regards,
Mark.

P.S. Grandad's off for a cold beer!
Bloke with too much time on his hands!

markh15

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Re: Swinging Axle Modification
« Reply #10 on: 31 May, 2009, 08:08:53 PM »
Hi All,
I have learned something today,

I AM NOT AS CLEVER AS I THOUGHT I WAS!!

I have had another go at fitting the swing axle today, but with no joy.

I have modified the drop arm from the Steering Box three different ways, extended the Pitman Arms to move the Steering Control Rods backwards, for more clearance, and I just can't make it work! :-\

The problem is the Steering Box, Basically, it's in the wrong place above the axle line, so clearances are very tight.
It would definately work with a 'Standard' Toylander steering setup, as the arm on the end of the column would point backwards, leaving more clearance for the axle to pivot, but Hey Ho, it was worth a try.

If anyone is considering using this idea, which does give more lock when the axle is pivoting (and looks very trick when fitted), just use the same method as Richard suggests in the build manual, but bend the end plate on the column backwards slightly, for a little more clearance.

Oh well, Back to the 'Drawing board', as they say!! :-\

Keep Busy,
Regards,
Mark.
Bloke with too much time on his hands!

multisync

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Re: Swinging Axle Modification
« Reply #11 on: 31 May, 2009, 09:15:47 PM »
Hi Mark
Not being able to see your problems first hand, I'm probably barking up the wrong tree.
But using a bit of lateral thinking, if the steering box is in the way, move it!
Is it possible to fit the steering box at the steering wheel end of the collumn?
Something on the lines of, putting the standard collumn back in, and then offsetting the steering wheel to get the steering box in the cab, just behind the wheel. The steering wheel then will run on a short shaft, either to one side, or below or above the main collumn.
Just thinking out loud.
Best wishes
Walter
Just a Big kid! I love toys! Collect Dinky's, build model planes and helis, etc

brian

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Re: Swinging Axle Modification
« Reply #12 on: 31 May, 2009, 11:00:57 PM »
Mark, have you got photo's of the complete installation so we can see the problems?

Brian.
Brian.

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markh15

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Re: Swinging Axle Modification
« Reply #13 on: 01 June, 2009, 10:58:30 AM »
Hi Guys,
Thanks for the support (it fits well). Sorry Brian, I was so busy trying to get it to work, I didn't take any pictures.

The problem is the steering box drop arm. When on full Left lock, it hits the pivot bolt for the right side axle extension, when the axle is on 'Left down, Right up' pivot (hope that makes sense).
I made two new drop arms yesterday, both work, but one fouls on the framework for the axle support, the other causes the rose joints on the ends (connecting shaft from the steering box to steering shaft), to foul when on full lock, as they can't pivot enough.
As I said last night, the box is in the wrong place for this arrangement.

I like Walter's idea of placing the box somewhere else (like the bin), i.e. behind the dash, and using two shafts (like Quadra), but this would leave a large hole in the car (nothing that can't be sorted), and I'm a little concerned about cutting more wood away for fear of weakening the structure.

I did consider moving the box to a new position below the car. Basically swinging it through 90 degrees and fixing it under the floor. But the box is then the wrong 'Hand', and would protrude into the wheel arch and hit the tyre.

I spent about 7 hours all told yesterday looking at how to sort the problem, but no simple solution was forthcomming, all the answers involved making new components, and as Walter pointed out, the nicer weather is due, and I want Harvey to be able to use the car over the summer, so I re-fitted the static axle for the time being.
I can see another 'Winter Re-fit' on the horizon!

I have thought about going back to a standard Toylander steering shaft as the new column would be the easiest option to make.

After I get the 'Secret' project sorted (announcement soon, I promise), I might just resurrect the 'Big Body' theory, and sort it then. I'll have all the bits to hand and can finalise positions while in the building faze, instead of having to modify existing parts.

Thanks for the input, it's always appreciated,
Keep Busy,
Regards,
Mark.

« Last Edit: 03 June, 2009, 10:53:35 PM by Anthony »
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multisync

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Re: Swinging Axle Modification
« Reply #14 on: 01 June, 2009, 09:28:23 PM »
Hi Mark
You'll have enough spare bits to make the "secret project" shortly, but still, it's better than watching telly.........
keep busy
Walter
Just a Big kid! I love toys! Collect Dinky's, build model planes and helis, etc