Insurance

[Anthony]

Did you know it is necessary to have 3rd party insurance to be in compliance with the Road Traffic Act amendments of 2000?

[markh15]

Hi All,
Gary and I were talking about this subject yesterday, and I was explaining that I would be taking out cover, when we had a thought. If 'Toylander' vehicles are required to have Third Party insurance, does this mean that Mobility Scooters used on the pavements, are also required to have the same cover?

I understand why it is required in this 'Litigation' age, as these vehicles are quite heavy and could potentially do some serious damage to either pedestrian or property, but your average Motobility Scooter weighs in around the same, so how are they covered?

Hope I haven't opened another 'can of wigglies', just airing a thought,
Regards,
Mark.

[StevenB]

We had cause to use the public liability on our Pet Insurance a few years ago. We own a very well trained Dalmatian who ran into, and knocked off a cyclist while being chased by an aggresive dog trying to attack her.

So, insurance of this type is a jolly good idea... as long as the wording on the policy actually covers the circumstances (i.e. the vehicle may be being operated by a 6 year old!, etc).

Stay safe and protect yourselves.

[KHP955]

Does this mean my little ones can start building up their no-claims bonus??

Antony

[dale]

Just finished filling out my proposal form for third party insurance to cover the Toylander.  Spoke to Tony Wood yesterday about the policy he offers.  A very helpful chap and prompt service.  The policy available from him covers ANY driver of ANY age.  However if used on the road, the driver must hold the correct (full) driving license.  The policy will even cover us if we use the Toylander for giving charity rides at the local church fair, bonus!

[markh15]

Hi Dale,
Sounds like a good deal, it's definately something I'm going to look into (especially with Harvey's driving!), but a thought occured to me the other day, and Dale has just reminded me of it.

Under the revisions to the 'Road Traffic Act', that has led us to this point about Insurance, I have been told that, Mobility Scooters used on the road, and capable of 8 mph, must display a valid Road Fund Licence (TAX)!!
Apparently, the Scooter has to be 'Registered' with the DVLA as a 'Disability' vehicle, and they send you a valid 'Tax Disk' for your scooter Free of Charge.

So where does that leave Toylanders?
If they are to be used in public places, do they need a Tax disk?
How do you register it?
As a Toy, or a modified Mobility Scooter?

This could get seriously out of hand.
I think the saving grace is that your average 'Beat Bobby' won't be too concerned (or clued up) with the matter, but it only takes one 'Eagle Eyed' and over zealous Traffic officer....and who knows what could happen!

I am (of course) just joking about the registration, and the Police, but the bit about the Road Tax for mobility Scooters is correct. I do understand, and agree with, the precaution of Insurance (as Steven has pointed out in this thread), it just makes me think about what could happen, if the 'Kill Joy' division of the Government took a hand in things!

Keep Looking over your shoulder, (or is that my paranoia?)
Regards.
Mark. (Mr Uneasy)

[paulr]

Regards the traffic officers, with the miniature steamer we run it is road taxed and has a dvla licence number which is free to renew.  On road runs we have done the police wave us on  this includes some of the smaller scale models who although insured are not road registered, as they are out in a group on an organised road run and in with the pack no one has had any trouble so far.

We did speak to a policeman once and asked him if he had any objection to half a dozen of us driving round Melton Mowbray town centre on a Saturday afternoon calling at the chippy on the way back. His comment was to the effect that if we were daft/brave enough to do it then he was sure he could find something to do on the otherside of the town and he couldn't find the right page in the book to throw at us anyway.

Not that this helps much with Toylanders but its a point of interest from experience. 

Regards PaulR and Mrs

[markh15]

Hi Paul,
Your comment about the policeman just adds weight to my point.

As I said it only takes one 'Bobby' to have got out of the wrong side of the bed, and who knows what kind of trouble it could lead to. Lets face it, we've all met one at one time or another!

I, like you, and many others, have been brought up to respect the police, but it only takes one 'Bar-steward' to upset the apple cart, Know what I mean!!

Keep Smiling,
Regards,
Mark.

[dale]

I was talking to my friendly local MOT tester recently, and he said it would be possible to MOT a Toylander.  He said that you can get something called a daytime MOT.  Trials motorbikes and the like use daytime MOTs.  They do not have headlights, etc, so could not be used at night, but do have to travel on roads between trials, hence a daytime MOT.  The DVLA would probably have to inspect the Toylander for SVA.  After that, it could be MOT'd, and then taxed (free for electric vehicles)

Would be a pain, as it would mean I'd have yet another vehicle to MOT, and tax.  If challenged I would claim that it should be considered the same as a class 2 mobility scooter (up to 4mph), so does not legally require MOT, tax, or insurance to use.  It would have to be used mainly on pavements, but is allowed to cross roads when needed.

Like others have said, it's a can of worms!

[StevenB]

A Toylander is a hard vehicle to categorise: it isn't a mobility scooter, a road going vehicle or any form of small internal combustion engine power vehicle (i.e. mini-moto).

If you want to use a Toylander away from home, my opinion is that Public liability insurance is a must to protect yourself - you just don't know what circumstances you'll find yourself in.

The insurance proposed by Walker Midgley sounds ideal from what I've read here (i.e. any driver, any age). I'll get a copy of the policy and report back.

What doesn't help is that over the last few years theres been an explosion of small internal combustion powered (and some electric) leisure type vehicle (mini-motos, go-peds, etc.). As you may well know any internal combustion powered vehicle needs to be MOT, registered, insured (etc). Combined with the legal aspects, many were used in public places, natually the Police clamped down.
On the electric side I know that all forms of electrically propelled 2-wheeled scooter-type vehicle are illegal (if it has pedals then the vehicle comes under the electrically assisted cycle regulations). The bloke down the road had his confiscated. But then he did use to take his kids to school on his which was a bit daft.

I think we need to get to the bottom of this issue... its making me quite nervous.

If a Toylander is regarded as a Category 2 Mobility Scooter (under 4mph) I'll be very suprised - and then the user would have to be 14 years and older (which I am). If this is the case I look forward to driving into my local Tesco's and doing some shopping in my Toylander Mobility Scooter!

[brian]

Can I respectfully suggest that this subject is not persued to the point of dotting all the "I's" and crossing all the "T's".

I think that it is such a grey area as to be very difficult to apply legislation, but you can rest assured that if the authorities can cock things up, make it difficult for us to put our toys to use and charge us for the privelidge, they will.

I think every one should be advised as part of the kit package to take out public liability insurance, perhaps even an application form could be included in the build manual, but for heaven's sake, don't persue the topic through officialdom otherwise we will be going down the kit car route of SVA, now IVA, and this is currently set at near ?500 and came into force at the start of this month, April 2009.

Just build it, insure it, quietly play with it and keep shtum.

With the proliferation of mobilty scooters, many of them driven by people who have never had reason to read the highway code, get a licence or take a test, I can see in the not too distant future some legislation forcing mobilty scooter drivers to take some form of test etc. as the pavements, shopping mall's and supermarkets become more and more cluttered with the scooter drivers.

Now this is another can of worms and I don't want to start another long winded discussion on this forum about something that we can do nothing about. 

Just a few thoughts based on my general observations and involvement in the kit car build scene, two built, both SVA'd with first time passes at ?180 a time, now IVA at something near ?500 a time.

Regards,

Brian.

[markh15]

Hi Guys,
I have to agree with Brian, and admit that we could all be taking things too far, and I am partially to blame for this, but it does raise some interesting thoughts and queeries.

Like Steven, I intend to take out insurance, just to be safe, but I think that, like Brian says, providing that you are not causing a 'Nuisance', or pose a threat to others, then 'Plod' will smile quietly to himself and leave all alone.

As Brian says, the building of full sized kit cars is a minefield, with constantly moving goalposts, so let's not worry unnecessarily about this, and let sleeping Legislation lie for now.

Can Of Worms Welded shut!!

Keep Building,
Regards,
Mark.

[StevenB]

I agree, its good to get some perspective on the matter. All I want to do is use it discreetly and responsibly.

As Brian said "Just build it, insure it, quietly play with it and keep shtum".

But he did miss one thing out - ENJOY IT 

[brian]

Oh dear, fancy me forgetting the most important element, yes indeed, enjoy the fruits of your efforts, well said Steven.

I had my serious old GIT hat on when I posted that, sorry.

Regards to all,

Brian.

[markh15]

Hi Brian,
No don't worry, we all needed an injection of reality, and thankfully you provided it!

It just illustrates though, how much of a problem could lie beneath the surface, and how concerned responsible Parents / Grandparents are about things.
It only takes one question to raise a thousand others.

Make hay, sorry Toylanders and enjoy them in the sunshine!!

Here's to many a happy (and legislation free) hours of 'Toylandering' (?)

Keep Busy,
Regards,
Mark